Take Heart

Who Cares For the Caregiver?

• Marissa Bondurant, author, Carrie M Holt • Season 3 • Episode 135

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Carrie is joined by guest Marissa Bondurant, author of the Bible Study “Who Cares for You?”  Marissa draws parallels between her own experiences as a caregiver for her daughter undergoing medical treatments and the humble acts of service performed by Jesus.  They discuss living out our faith through everyday tasks and self-sacrifice, allowing others to see Jesus at work in us. Marissa also talks about the challenges faced by being a caregiver and responding to others’ perceptions, the importance of community support, and the need to bring hidden thoughts and feelings into the open. This episode brings a message of hope, reminding you that God sees, cares, and walks with you on your difficult journey. 

Ep.135; July 4, 2023

Key Moments:
[4:00] Becoming a Caregiver: Marissa's Journey
[10:48] “I don’t know how you do it!” 
[19:00] Shifting perspective from burden to gift
[24:11] Overcoming guilt because of our child’s needs
[28:49] The burden of making others comfortable
[32:54] God's mercy that is sustaining us

Resources:
Marissa Bondurant’s Website
Who Cares For You? A 4-Week Bible Study For Caregivers
Marissa’s Instagram
Marissa’s Facebook

If you enjoyed the show:

Carrie M Holt: Hi there, and welcome to our summer interview series. My guest today is Marissa Bondurant. She is a wife and mom to four girls. Having walked through childhood cancer with her second daughter, she now encourages caregivers with the hope of the gospel and equips women to serve their suffering friends. She is the author of the Bible study "Who Cares For You: A Four-Week Study For Caregivers." On the weekend, her family enjoys hiking, camping, and enjoying the Texas Hill Country. I know this conversation is going to bless you today.  Marissa, welcome. Thank you for being here.

Marissa Bondurant: Thank you for having me, Carrie.

Carrie: First of all, could you tell our listeners a little bit about yourself and how you found yourself as a caregiver in your parenting journey? 

Marissa: I'm married to Rob here, and we live in South Texas. We've got four girls, and they all just had birthdays. Now they're eleven, nine, six, and three. I became a caregiver in 2018 when our second daughter was diagnosed with cancer, and she was four and a half at the time. They found a tumor in one of her kidneys. In a moment, started our caregiving journey and all sorts of other things, too.

Carrie: The name of your Bible study is: "Who Cares For You?" I feel like that is just a very disarming question. I had someone ask me that a couple of years ago, and it immediately opened the floodgates of tears. Why do you think that is the case? Where did you come up with the title?

Marissa: One place that it came from was in all of our appointments, all of her therapies, all of her treatments, all of the different doctors, nurses, and specialists and everything, none of them learned my name. They always just called me “Mom. There was something about that that made me feel very unseen and made my experience as the caregiver, feel very lonely and isolating. When I would read scripture and see that my name is actually engraved on the hands of Christ, and God knows how many hairs are on my head, and not one of them can fall without my father knowing. 
As I started reading some of Jesus's encounters with caregivers and how he called them by name and walked with them and everything, I started to see that my experience as the caregiver also mattered. The things that were difficult for me were seen by God. We would go places, and people would always ask how my daughter was doing, which I so appreciated. They needed to ask how she was doing because she was the one going through so much heartache and suffering. But it was very rare that anyone would ask how I was doing. I felt like I was falling apart. When I was at home behind closed doors, I was a mess. I needed someone to recognize that and want to ask how I was and want to care for me. That's really where it came from.

Carrie: When you said, "I felt so unseen," because they do that. That's been my experience, too. In the hospital, with my son, they will just say, Mom, and very rarely do they call your name. It seems like such a small thing for them to learn your name or ask, "What do you go by? What do you like to be called?" They don't take the time to do that. My heart just sank. I think as a caregiver, and even as an entire family, I know that there have been times when the focus is so much on my son with needs. I have four kids, too; all the siblings are not seen either. It can be a very lonely place.  My question for you is, did anyone show up and care for you in those moments? Did you Have a physical person, or was it Jesus, or was it both?

Marissa: Part of our story is how our local church cared for us in incredible ways. I could fill your whole podcast talking about how God used our local body of believers to be the hands and feet of Jesus and care for us. Here are a couple of examples, there was an older man at our church who would show up at our house to mow our lawn. Wouldn't even ask; he would show up with his lawnmower and go to work. There were some older women in the church who actually came and sat with me at some of the chemo appointments, which were some of the most difficult parts of her treatment. The things that I was having to experience and those appointments were so traumatic. To have someone else who was willing to enter into that and was willing to draw close to pain and suffering was incredibly impactful. Yes, it was both. God used his people to care for us, and he used his word. He used the scriptures and the examples of Jesus drawing near. There were a lot of things that I was wrestling with that really I could only tell Jesus about because they felt so raw. I didn't always know how to put them into words, or maybe I felt a little bit embarrassed to say those things out loud. But I could take them to Jesus, and I could see how he weeps with me, how he speaks truth to my heart, how he puts his arm around me and gives me faith to get through the next day. Yeah. It was definitely both for me.

Carrie: I love how you said they entered into your pain, and they drew close. So, often, I think we're scared to do that because we're afraid we're gonna get sucked in, or we're afraid maybe a similar journey is going to be asked of us if we walk into it with somebody else. It's that fear. 
Will you tell our listeners a little bit about how the four-week Bible study is set up? Then we'll dive into some of the details of it from there.

Marissa: The passages of Scripture that were most helpful for me were those experiences that Jesus had with caregivers himself. I pulled four of those stories. Each week goes through a different one of those encounters that Jesus has. My heart in the study was I wanted to create something that really allowed caregivers to wrestle with those hard questions. People gave me devotionals, and they gave me things to read and listen to while we were going through stuff. I always felt like everything was too neat and tidy like there was like a little bow at the end. I've got deeper questions about that. I need to wrestle with God about this. I need to ask him some really hard things. I wanted to pose questions in the study that may be caregivers think about, but no one's let them say them out loud before. I wanted a place where caregivers could do the study in the community and realize all those things that they're holding in that they might feel guilt and shame about (thinking and feeling). Actually, a lot of other people are asking the same questions. I wanted to bring those things that were hidden; bring them out into the light. 

Carrie: It's so interesting that you talked about how the things that you were reading in the middle of your struggles sometimes just had everything wrapped up in a nice neat bow. I can relate to that. We can relate to that here at Take Heart because when we wrote our book that came out in May, we wanted to highlight the tension of the emotions that we feel as caregivers and as special needs moms and how everything isn't wrapped up in a nice neat bow. It's okay not to be okay and how to wrestle with these hard questions. One of the things that you highlight in the study that I think is so good is the spotlight, which is on caregivers and special needs moms. How people will say things to us such as you're admired for your struggles, I could never do what you do. God gives special kids to special people and all that. Why do you think people say things like that? What has been your response? What advice can you give about our response to those questions because it's difficult?

Marissa: Yes. That is a really, really frustrating and painful question to hear. I know for myself my gut reaction is to be a little snarky, to say, "I don't have a choice. This is my kid, and I'm the mom." Of course, I'm gonna figure this out. I'm gonna do this. What I have found to be really helpful is to remember where the question is coming from on behalf of the other person. I think that oftentimes, what's happening is that someone is watching us walk through something that's difficult. They're starting to feel anxious and afraid. What if God calls them to do something that's that challenging? They start to wonder, Oh, my goodness, is she doing it out of her own strength? Oh, I don't have that strength. I can't do that. Or is God's mercy going to run out? Is it finite? Like, did she get the last dose, and there won't be any left for me? I think those are the lies that are happening on the other end. 
Then those questions come out. But it's coming from a place of fear and anxiety. I actually wrote an article about this. It was called "On Suffering Well In the Mercies of God." I talk about before our daughter's diagnosis, being in church with other women and watching them worship God on a Sunday morning with tears streaming down their faces. I was watching them, and I knew that they were going through these difficult things. Yet I was watching them have faith and hold on to God, and I was watching God sustain them. As I watched them from afar, my faith started to grow that if God could sustain them, someday he'll sustain me. Sure enough, at some point, it was our turn. It was our turn to sit there on a Sunday morning with tears streaming down our faces. Yet, God was giving us the mercy we needed for that day, to be able to worship Him and walk in faith and do it day by day by day. An analogy that I made in that article was (my husband's a runner, and so he's done a bunch of half marathons and stuff.) It'd be like on that on that Saturday morning. I sit down with my little bowl of cereal, and I'm watching him eat oatmeal and bananas and yogurt, and he's eating this huge meal. I could look at him and think, that's not fair. How come you got more than me? or I could see, oh, wait, he's being given what he needs to get through what's going to be in his day. I think that's exactly how God's mercy works. He doled out these measures of mercy to each of us at the beginning of every day. In Lamentations 3, it says that His mercy is new every morning, and they never end. You wake up, and God knows what is on your plate that day, and he is going to give you the measure of mercy you need. I don't have to stress or be anxious that my dose of mercy looks different than yours because I know that when the day comes, he'll redistribute that as needed if that makes sense.

Carrie: I think a lot of times that comes from a scarcity mindset that it is going to run out. I think even as caregivers, we have to fight it within our own selves (am I tiring God out?) I know if my son's repeated hospital stays (he's had 61 surgeries), I have thought surely this is going to be it. He's gonna say I'm done. You're on your own. God doesn't get tired, and as you said, His mercies are new every morning. I know one of the things that you highlight in the book or in the Bible study, it is a book, is how caregiving is a ministry we've been called to. I can tell you that's something that I really wrestled with because it does not feel like the ministry that I want some days. I'm sure that our listeners can relate to that feeling because it is so exhausting when you have kids with chronic medical issues or even chronic behavioral issues where you're being judged all the time because your child doesn't attach to you, or all of those things that I know our listeners are going through. What would you say to them? What encouragement would you give to them? Talk a little bit about the idea of caregiving being a ministry and how you came to that conclusion.

Marissa: I mean, that hit me hard right after our daughter was diagnosed. I remember crying out to God and being, I don't want to do this. I do not want to be a pediatric cancer mom. I don't want that label. I don't want to walk this road; 
I don't want to have to do these things. He led me to Ephesians chapter two, where it talks about us being seated with Christ. I read something where there was this image of... If you remember walking into the cafeteria in high school, and you see all the tables, right? There were tables that you did not want to be seen at. You did not want to sit at that table. Then there are tables that are the cool table, and you think, oh, I hope they invite me over there. Well, the Lord gave me this vision through Ephesians 2 of it's like we, as the caregiver, have walked into a room, and the Lord has saved us a seat at the caregiving table. It says, "We are seated with him." I have this picture of Jesus waving his hands saying, "Marissa, come over here, I've saved you a seat. This is the spot that I have for you. That passage in Ephesians talks about how we've been saved by grace; it is through faith. It has nothing to do with our works. Even though the saving that we've gone through is by God's grace, he still does have these good works planned for us. Verse 10, says, we are His workmanship created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. So, that image completely changed my perspective of what I was walking through. Of course, I want to be seated with Christ. Of course, I want to be at his table doing the work that he has laid out before me. The fact that I'm seated with Him means I'm not doing it by myself. This is something that I've been able to do with some ministries that I serve with other pediatric cancer moms. This is kind of like the image we use over and over. Come sit at our table. God's prepared a place for you to come and sit here with us. That has really helped me see this as a ministry I've been called to rather than this unfortunate thing that I've been thrown into accidentally or something. 

Carrie: In this study, you say, "Caregiving requires us to lay down our preferences and plans and pick up the holy calling of meeting the needs of another." I think that perspective shift that it hasn't been thrust upon us, but we've been invited into, is huge. We can look at it instead of it being a burden and a drudgery that it is a gift. It doesn't mean that every day is easy, or that when you have to clean up your child's whatever, again, and again and again and do the same thing, give the same meds, run the feeding pump, do the treatments, do the port over and over and over again, that we still don't need the strength of God. But it can help when we shift that perspective. What are some practical ways that have helped you to shift that perspective when you are feeling just that drudge of oh, I have to do this again. I had to sit through another chemotherapy session. Do you have some practical things that helped you along the way?

Marissa: I think the biggest thing was remembering what Jesus's ministry looked like, and the people that Jesus hung out with, and the things that Jesus did. Cleaning his disciples' feet. No one else was going to do that. No one else was going to volunteer to do that, and yet Jesus humbled himself to do that out of His love, His abundant love for His disciples. 
When we get to sometimes, literally get on the floor, and, and clean something, as you said, we're walking in the things that Jesus walked in. That's a really humbling place to be. Even now, my daughter is in remission, but the side effects continue, and the therapies and the specialists, all the things going on. Sometimes I have to remind myself, as I'm looking around the clinic room or whatever, where would Jesus be right now? This is where Jesus would be. He would be dealing with the feeding tube. He would be at the therapy appointment. He would be cheering them on, he would be cleaning it up, whatever the thing is that I don't want to be doing. That is exactly the thing Jesus would be choosing to do. To me, it's incredibly humbling to think of that and also to think about how Jesus has done that for me over and over again. Yes, we're the caregivers. From the outward perspective, it looks like we're the ones who are strong and put together, but the Bible says we're all sheep. When I remember how desperate I am for Jesus to care for me, it helps me persevere in caring for another as well. 

Carrie: I love how you said you look at the instances of Jesus because, in the study, you dive into John 9. I found John 9:1-3 extremely early on in my journey. When you look at how Jesus treated those who would have been outcasts, marginalized, and looked down on, they were our children. The disciples come in (for those of you who aren't familiar with that passage). They pass by a man who's blind from birth, and the disciples ask Him, "Did this man sin, or did his parent sin that he was born blind."  That must have been this common assumption in Jewish culture that they did something terribly wrong in order for this to happen. Jesus's response to them is so amazing. "No, but that the works of God could be displayed through him." I think that, as parents, a lot of times, we struggle with guilt over our child's diagnosis. Did we do something wrong? Is this payment? A prenatal diagnosis, I didn't eat enough of this. Spina bifida has a folic acid deficiency, cancer, whatever it is. What is some hope that you can share with those who are feeling that weight of guilt over their child's diagnosis and the caregiving journey they're walking through?

Marissa: When I mentioned earlier, wanting the study to be a place that kind of brings to light, shines light on some of those, like hidden places, I feel like this is one of those things that oftentimes we don't voice out loud. These fears that maybe something we did or didn't do directly led to what our child is walking through. That's a hard thing to say out loud. Probably most of the time, the answer is nothing. Things just happen. There is brokenness in the world, and our bodies don't always work the way that we expect them to work. There are situations where there is a connection there. I think that that is a real thing. I think that there are women who do know or have a strong sense that something that they did has an impact on their child. I think that that is a burden that women sometimes are carrying, and that needs the gospel shines a light on it. Because God is very, very clear in Scripture, 

Romans 8:1 says, "There is therefore now no condemnation for anyone who is in Christ." Whether it's true that something we did led to what our child is walking through, or whether we're just afraid that maybe that's true, whatever the real details are, that is not at all what God wants us to be carrying. When he looks at us as the mothers of these children, there is no condemnation. He is not mad at us. This is not a punishment. This is not a repercussion for something. This is not spite on God's part. He has removed all of that. He has clothed us with His righteousness. When he looks at us, he just sees Jesus, and he has compassion and tenderness towards us. He knows that this is hard. That's something that has really been an encouragement for me that God knows that this is a hard road that we're walking through. He wants to meet us there and walk with us and bless us on this hard road. Another verse that is really impactful for me is Isaiah 40:11, which says, "He will tend his flock like a shepherd, he will gather the lambs in his arms, he will carry them in his bosom, and gently lead those that are with them." That, to me, is exactly this picture. He has removed all these feelings of guilt and shame, and he is now holding us close to his chest. He's walking with us and leading us down this road of caring for our child with all the different things that encompass that.

Carrie: Yeah, it's so good. There's no condemnation, whatever the real reason is, and we may never know the cause, necessarily, or correlation, or whatever that might be. It doesn't matter because Jesus doesn't condemn us, and he wants to be near us. I think that's really good. If you could go back and give yourself one piece of advice at the beginning of your caregiving journey, or maybe in some of the dark places of the things that you learn through writing the study,  what would you tell yourself? What would you share with our listeners about those dark times?

Marissa: This is something my therapist and I are still working out. Plug for therapy!

Carrie: Yes, we've been talking about that a lot on the podcast this year. It's funny because, in a lot of the interviews I've been doing, it's a reoccurring theme. Sorry to interrupt you, but it's just been neat how it’s coming up over and over and over again. Go ahead.

Marissa: Well, one of the things that I have slowly come to realize that I wish I could go back and tell myself early on is that it is not my job. It is not my burden to carry, to make everyone else around me feel okay with what we're walking through. The people around us, our friends, our extended family, school personnel, and all the different people around us are going to react to our child's diagnosis. Sometimes they're going to have a lot of anxiety and fear about it, or misunderstandings, or you name it. Early on, I felt like it was my job to make them all comfortable and okay with what we were going through. My therapist is helping me see that, no, that is actually God's job. That is the work of the Holy Spirit. 

He's going to meet each of those people where they are, and he's going to help, deal with their fears, deal with their anxieties, address their faith questions, and all of that. That's not to say that there are times and situations where we might be led to say something or encourage them when, but feeling the weight that that's my job, I carried a lot more anxiety and stress than I had to when I was acting as though that was my responsibility.

Carrie: Yeah, and I can really identify with that because my whole journey, my whole life, I'm wired to be a caretaker, I'm the oldest child. I feel like; it's always my responsibility to kind of take care of everything. That is something that I'm also working through with a counselor or therapist, of letting go of it's not my responsibility. That is really, really hard. I can't remember if you actually explained this verse or if you talked about the verse. I think it's in First Peter, but having a reason for the hope that is within us. I can tell you that growing up, knowing that verse and being raised in a Christian home, I always felt like that verse was that I had to be ready to fight and defend my faith. That meant that if I were going to be asked to deny my faith or walk away, I would have to give this reason and not deny it. Through your study, I realized that scripture talks about hope, the reason for the hope that's within us. That means that people are going to see Jesus shining through us. They're going to see our realness. It doesn't mean that we're perfect. It doesn't mean that we're handling it perfectly; it doesn't mean that we're taking care of everyone around us. It means that we're trusting. Like you said earlier when you're in church, and you see those people worshipping, and the tears are rolling down their faces because that is me a lot. It's that they know the intimacy of walking through something really hard, and they're so grateful because God has walked through that with him. Could you expand on that at all? Do you have any thoughts about that Scripture? How do we give care in such a way that people see God's hope in us?

Marissa: Yeah, this definitely goes back to what we were talking about, when other people come to us and say, "How are you doing this?" Being able to respond to those people in a way that is understanding of their fears and points them towards the hope of Jesus that we have. Reminding them that it's God's mercy that is sustaining us. I think that is one very practical way that we can point people to the hope that we have in Christ. I think oftentimes, we're, we're pointing people to the hope we have in Christ, simply by doing the things that he's calling us to do, just those everyday tasks, It doesn't even have to be flashy, doesn't even have to be with words, oftentimes. I think when people watch us continue to lay down our lives for the sake of another, they see Jesus at work in us. You and I know it's not us. We know it's not. We know how tired we get and grumpy and resentful and angry and all those things. But the fact that we keep going is because Jesus is sustaining us, and other people will see that, and then we can pray for them. We can ask God to be at work in their hearts and to let them see that God is going to care for them too. 
He's going to say sustain them too. I think that has also been part of my process in not feeling like it's my responsibility to make everyone okay, but I can pray for them. In those moments when people are coming to me with whatever their anxieties are on my behalf or my child's behalf, I can at that moment be "Holy Spirit, meet them. You go care for them." I can't do that right now, but God, you can. Please go do that, and allowing prayer to be a part of that process, I think, can be really helpful too.

Carrie: I think that's really good. In closing, is there anything else that is on your heart you would like to share about caregiving or anything God's taught you through this journey?

Marissa: My heart is truly that every caregiver would know how much she is cared for and that she would not feel like she's walking this road by herself. That is my prayer over that Bible study and over every woman who does it. Every time I meet a new caregiver... I think that's part of what God does through this too. He keeps bringing other caregivers into our lives. Somehow I feel like I'm meeting all the people in my town who have these unique situations with their kids and health journeys and diagnoses and all this stuff. You don't even have to look for it. That's just part of the redemptive work that God is doing here on earth. He's going to connect us, and when we're willing to be a little bit vulnerable with each other, then it'll allow us to encourage each other more and feel seen and feel heard. 

Carrie: In closing, Marissa, where can our listeners find you on social media, and where can they get a copy of your Bible study?

Marissa: Yeah, I'm on Facebook and Instagram, just Marissa Bondurant. Facebook might be Marissa Bondurant, a writer, or something I can't remember. Then my website is just my name, www.marissabondurant.com. On my website, I've got a lot of different articles that I think are helpful. I've got a whole series on walking through painful anniversaries, diagnosis day, surgery date, and all that stuff. I've got a whole series on that. I've got a series on grief and lament. I've got some free resources that you can download. There's lots of different stuff on my website. Then my book is called Who Cares For You, and that's on Amazon. So that's easy to grab on there.