Take Heart

Questions From Our Listeners

• Amy J Brown, Carrie Holt and Sara Clime • Season 4 • Episode 142

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In this collaborative episode, all three hosts answer listeners’ questions. They discuss the importance of embracing the present moment and finding joy in the little things while navigating the journey of special needs parenting. They share personal experiences and reflections on how their own dreams and expectations have shifted over time. The episode highlights the need to grieve the loss of old dreams while also allowing space for new dreams to emerge. They talk about strategies for parenting the siblings of their special needs children and how to manage the emotional well-being of everyone in the household. Thanks for submitting your questions!

Eps. 142: Sept 26, 2023

Resources:

Ep. 136 Growing Slow with Jennifer Dukes Lee

Growing Slow: Jennifer Dukes Lee 

How to Find Strength and Compassion in Struggle with Aundi Kolbler

Adam Young


If you enjoyed the show:




Before listening to the whole plot of the stupid Marvel Universe, which I still don't understand, or a Lego creation, you have no clue what it is. And there's all backstory, those little moments that matter. And I'm here to tell you because I have 30,28,23, almost all my kids are adults; they matter.

Amy J Brown:

Welcome to Take Heart, a podcast about creating space for connection, hope, and joy. As a mom to a child with disabilities or special needs. We want you to feel connected and encouraged as we navigate this messy, emotional, and joy-filled life together. Hi, this is Amy J. Brown. And I'm here with my co-hosts, Carrie M Holt, and Sarah Clime. You're listening to Episode 142. And this month, we are doing something a little different. We took questions from our listeners. I'm very excited about this. We asked our listeners to write us and let us know what questions they had for us. And we're going to attempt to answer them not as the experts but just as fellow travelers with you. So, thank you to those who reached out to us. And let me just say here, before we start, if you have a question you want us to answer on the podcast, reach out to us through social media on Instagram, and Facebook are on our website at takeheartspecialmoms.com. So let's get started. Are you guys ready?

 Okay, well the first question we have today comes from Sarah Hoover and she asked the question, how do you prepare for the future for your child and trust God for it? 

 Okay, well the first question we have today comes from Sarah Hoover and she asked the question, how do you prepare for the future for your child and trust God for it? 

Regardless of whether you have a child with a disability or not, that's very heavy on parents’ and children's hearts. I mean, the first time your kid does something dumb, you're like, they're never going to make it.  But that's how I felt at times I've six. I've probably said that about every single one of them. But I would like to share just a little bit about my experience with that, and then I'll hand it off to Carrie and Sarah. But as you all know, I have children with reactive attachment disorder. And our daughter, who is now 20, her name is Grace,

And I just had to trust God to take me through the day by day. Now, I will say not every child with reactive attachment disorder will end up in a situation like her daughter, and I don't know how successful she'll be in that space. And so I could, and I have said, okay, she made it this far. But what if, but then I remembered, I don't know what next year ten years. I just have to rest today. So do you guys have anything? What about you, Sarah? What do you have to say about that question? 

Sara Clime: We're in a season of life right now with our son, TJ; he just graduated from high school. And it seems like we have planned and planned and planned for this season right now ever since he was diagnosed. I left my career, we set aside goals, dreams. And that sounds so dramatic. Because I didn't set aside those dreams. It's just they changed. But I had a career I had, I went to college for that I had the specific goals in mind that I thought of what I wanted. And now that I know. I mean just so we're clear those dreams were not really truly what I wanted. And I love the life that we have now. But I still had to grieve that and I still had to realize that I had to leave a career that I had went to school for I studied for I paid a lot of my parents paid a lot of money for let's just be real. But I mean, I was very intentional about the steps in my life that I  had intended or I thought that I wanted my life. And then we received this diagnosis, and it was just a 90-degree angle switch. And so we decided I didn't want somebody else caring for my child and I was going to leave those dreams. I was going to setI don't know. He doesn't even know what he's gonna do. We don't know, is he gonna get a job? We don't know. And we don't. We haven't. We don't We really don't know right now we're still waiting for services, we're still waiting to see what those next steps are. And, to me, it seems like whenever I was growing up, my grandpa had, he had a farm. And I remember when we were young, he switched fields. And there was always a field that he would lay fallow. And I never understood it growing up. And he would always tend to that field. Even though there was nothing growing, he was allowing that field. And he was allowing that lay on to recover. And he was letting it to, you know, you couldn't see it. But underneath it was retaining moisture. And it was it was disrupting whatever pests were on it. And you couldn't see what was going on underneath. You couldn't see what was going on behind the scenes, so to speak. And he was letting it rest. And he was letting it recover. And I feel that that's where I was doing a lot of reflecting the other day, and I was like, I just need to be going just I think that's what we are as moms and caregivers. And we just want to know what that next step is. It's like, okay, so we want to do we want to do want to do we want to do for our children want to do it for ourselves and our families. But it just seemed like God was just like, you have to let your land lay fallow. This is your season of rest. This is your season of letting your land which is your heart, your soul, your your body, I think my body has just been like, I'm sitting on the couch. And I'm just like, Ah, well, maybe it's just time that you know, I'm getting my, my health back in order. And I just went for a walk. And it wasn't like to get my heart rate up. It was to how many miles Could I get in that morning and Okay, so I get this and like, I'm gonna do that. And then I go to the grocery store. And I was like, Oh, I baked a cake with my son, because he's really into baking right now. A client of mine sent a cookbook. And every Saturday, we now bake something that he's interested in. And I think that's the season we're in. We're letting the land lay fallow, and we're letting everything recover. So I think sometimes preparing for the future of your child might just look like might be a little aimless. But I think you have to allow that season of listening too. Because if you're always always going, you're not stepping back and listening, either. 

Carrie M Holt: I think it's really important to just not to live in the land of what if, and, you know, what, if this happens, or what is this going to look like? I think I think you can make specific plans for certain things. And then just like both of you have said, we just have to wait and see. And that's really, really, really hard. I was reminded this week I was reading exodus 16 about how the Israelites are coming out of Egypt. They've been through the Red Sea, and now they're in the desert in the wilderness for 40 years, 40 years, and they're complaining, they don't have food. And then the next morning, they wake up, and there's this white stuff on the ground, and they have no idea in fact, like the word like manna, or like mana I think is like the Hebrew means like, what is it, and they pick it up and they eat it. In Exodus 16, says that God fed them with the manna for 40 years until they reached the border of Canaan 40 years, he didn't get tired of providing for them. And I think sometimes this question about the future and trusting is because we have a false belief that God's grace or His mercy or his provision is going to run out. And, and it's not, it's not going to run out. And I think practically speaking to, you know, I have four kids, and one of my children who will remain unnamed, is kind of just in a season, we're just not quite sure what his future is going to look like. And he's not our son with a disability. He's, you know, one of our other kids and I'm realizing that sometimes we want all of our kids to maybe look similar or to be the same, but they're just all created so differently. They're, they have different strengths, they have different weaknesses. And I think that's true of our kids with special needs and disabilities. And we need to look and just like let God do a work and what you know, what's the main What's the main goal that they're just completely successful? 

and that they live on their own, and maybe that's not going to be success for them. But what is what does success look like for them? I think above all, it's, you know, knowing God and trusting him. But you know, maturity comes at different levels even in our neurotypical kids. So, I think, you know, it sounds so cliche to say one day at a time, but it's so true.

Amy: It is true. And I want to go back to what Sarah said, about letting the ground lie fallow. It reminds me of when we interviewed Jennifer Dukes Lee, she has a book called Growing Slow. And she says in the book, the little things are what make life and are the things that matter. And so sometimes preparing for the future is baking a cake with your son. Yeah. And I think that's an important thing to remember. Because if we jump on the next bandwagon of treatment, or this, like, I think you need to be aware of those things. But I mean, I'm gonna, I'm gonna just assume you to do the same thing. I mean, I'll plan in something seven years out and want to know everything about it right now, which is dumb and a waste of time. Okay, so chill out everybody. And remember, that it's the small things that matter. So anyway, thank you, Sarah, for that question, Sarah Hoover.


Amy: Okay, here's our second question from Jana Gilkey. She wants to know how you find and it kind of goes kind of goes with the first question, um, how we find new dreams while we grieve the old dreams that really goes with what Sarah was just saying. And I guess I would start by saying, how do we know what our dreams are going to be tough, we're walking the path that we're on. I think it has a lot to do with as I talk about a lot, that small moment living, you know, I met my husband in high school,  when I met him at the basketball game, and he was super cute. If you would have told me we would have had this life, I would have walked the other way as quickly as possible. But 16-year-old Amy didn't know what mid-50-year-old Amy knows. Now, I'm not gonna say the actual age.Because what my dream was then has changed to now. And there are disappointments definitely. But I don't really put a lot of stock in, you know, as we grow, we become new people, I guess, with the circumstances that are shaping us in our life. But we do have to grieve, and Carrie's' an expert on talking about grief, that sort of thing. So I would love to hear what you guys have to say about that. 

Carrie:  Well, I think so often, we think that there's something wrong with living in the tension between grieving and dreaming, you know, those two things are happening simultaneously. And we, we can't grieve or, you know, we shouldn't be grieving these dreams in this way that we pictured our family to be. And that's just not the case. And it's also okay, like, tension is needed, tension is needed to hold. And I think, I think we also have to remember that throughout life, we're always pivoting, it doesn't matter if you have neurotypical kids or not, we're always pivoting, you might lose a job, or you might move or, you know, change churches, or whatever it is, we're always growing and changing. I just think it's really important to ask God to give us those new dreams. The Psalms talks about, delight yourself in the Lord and He gives you the desires of your heart. And I don't think that necessarily means that He gives us all we want. But the things we delight in change. When we delight in God,, we learn how to delight in the things that he cares about. And that is, you know, our children, our families. Maybe it's a ministry, maybe it's just taking a meal to the neighbor or sending a card or something.  I think we have to give ourselves permission along the way to grieve. You know, just for instance, like with our son.You know, I remember when I was pregnant with him, one of the biggest wishes I had was that he would be able to nurse well, and he wouldn't have any swallowing problems. But that didn't happen. He ended up with a G-J feeding tube. And then when he was about 18 months old, we found out he could swallow safely. And then all of a sudden, I had this renewed dream of him being able to eat by mouth. It took nine years for us to get rid of his feeding tube. But I knew, you know, my gut instinct as a mom knew that he could do this and it was a lot of blood, sweat, and tears of therapy. But then also we had a dream that Toby would be able to walk. And we've worked on that for several years, and then he is scoliosis got really bad and he had to have back surgery. And all of a sudden, that dream had to just change to being really fast and really good in his wheelchair. I think we have to expect throughout the life of our child, you know because the disappointment happens in that gap right between what we think's going to happen and what actually happens. And so I think it requires just trust and flexibility. And for you to know that it is okay, to be sad about the things that your child cannot do and that maybe a neurotypical child can't do or that another child in your family is doing. It's okay to grieve that and take that to the Lord and live in that, that space of woman of this is not what I hoped for, you know, God, give me something new in this season.

Sara: I think too often, we think grieving old dreams getting, and finding new dreams has to be an either-or, yeah, but it can be an and both. So you can grieve your old dreams and find new ones. And it doesn't have to be well, I have to grieve my old dreams and be perfectly okay with the fact that I did not because I thought for sure, I was going to make it up the corporate ladder and move to a bigger city. And that was what I was going to do. And none of that happened.  I'm okay with that now, but I wasn't okay with that for a while. And that was okay, too. I have but I had to hold both of those. And it's okay that it wasn't an either-or. I was okay with it, it didn't mean that I was a bad mom. And it didn't mean that I didn't love my children. Even though I was grieving that dream. It just I remember, when my oldest son was, gosh, nine months old, my mom took my sister and I to New York. And I remember standing when we first got off the bus from the airport, I was standing on the corner. And we were looking up while we were in Times Square. And we were I was looking up in Times Square. And I had this overwhelming sense of missing out on a dream that I had because that's just where I thought that's that was my dream was being in a city like that and fast-paced and, and my husband if you know my husband, he's in camo. And he is if he is out in the back, 40. That's where he wants to be all the time. And I thought I'm missing out on something. And then all of a sudden, I thought I have this beautiful baby at home. Granted, he was not sleeping at all. And I have this wonderful husband. And I thought I'm a horrible wife and mother. But I wasn't. And I wish I could go back to that young woman and just say it's okay to grieve that dream, it doesn't mean that you're horrible. It just means that your dreams are changing. And it's okay to hold both of those things in the same space. So I think it's okay to find new dreams, but you have to grieve the old ones. Because if you don't, you are going to stay in a very uncomfortable space and you're never going to truly recognize your new dreams. And the way that they should be recognized if you're if you blame yourself or if you feel like you're a bad person for grieving those. 

Amy: Yeah, right. And God makes each one of us unique. So it's okay to have dreams too your dreams that are your own. And he gives us what we need. The Good Shepherd does. So I think that's helpful. That's great. Thanks, Sarah. 

 Sara: And I think sometimes your grieving your dreams. And sometimes I think because I think God's to saying like, yeah, you go ahead and grieve that dream. You're never gonna be here anyway. So that was never my dream for you, sister. So like, I think sometimes too. It's just you're grieving your dream, and it's okay to Okay. All right. 

Amy: You would have been great in New York City.
Sara: God's Looking at that girl at the basketball court.You sweet little thing?


Amy: Okay, we have another question. And I have to admit, I had to look up the term that's in this question because I wanted to understand it, how to handle siblings and I don't know if I'm saying this right, parentification, which is basically not asking too much of the other kids. The definition, which I'm going to share is a child that has responsibilities placed on them that are inappropriate considering their age and abilities. These responsibilities can include practical duties, such as paying bills and emotional support, emotional support, or being a confidant to a parent. It also happens with siblings, a child is asked to take care of siblings. And before we all feel guilty that we asked one of the older kids to change the diaper. Let me just say this, that there's some positives to giving kids responsibilities according to what I was reading that it does teach them responsibility, but when it feels like they need they to do this to make mom happy, then that's when it's uncomfortable and not healthy.And I read that these children often feel like they must suppress their own needs in order to maintain relationships. And also that highly sensitive kids often take on these roles. And I told Carrie and Sarah, before we started, this was me as a kid, and I read it, and I'm like, Oh, this was me. My sister died of leukemia when she was five, and I was three. And my mom was just flattened by that for the rest of her life. So I was very quickly, a little adult. I had to do things like, ask my grandparents, for money for my parents to pay their bills. And my parents loved me and were good to me too. But there was a lot of dependence on me. And I've been unpacking that for a long time. It's made me very responsible. And that coping skill gets me a lot of gold stars, but it's not always been what's best for my person. So I can relate to this. But when I heard this question, and this question is from Emily Billings, I thought of my own family,, there's a 13-year age, age range between my oldest to my youngest. So right now, my oldest son Davis is 30. My youngest child, Ella is 17. So when Ella was born, Davis was 11.So my older kids were all about the babies and the new and the adoptive kids helped. But there came a time when they would step in and help, which probably wasn't the best for them. Because of all the extreme behavior that was happening in our home. When we went to Bulgaria to adopt our son, we had caregivers stay with our kids ,our two oldest kids, I think they were 17 and 15. At the time, or maybe not that old, 15 and 13. They were home, our daughter was really acting out. When we got home from Bulgaria, they sat me down, and said we can never do this again. And I wish  I didn't place that on them, I would say. But I'm glad that I gave them the opportunity to say those words to me, they could always say whatever they wanted. To me, that's one thing I learned in parenting. But I also have to say, if you're in a big family, sometimes the older kid is going to have to pick up  I don't think there's any like you shouldn't have your kids do this. I think it's more the attitude behind it, and teaching them to be responsible, but also making sure that you're creating a safe buffer for who they are and their emotions. Does that make sense? 

Carrie: Yeah, I just think this is why it's so important that we are seeing a counselor and a therapist, because it's funny, I just was reading a post by a trauma therapist, and she was just saying, like, the top three things that she wished parents wouldn't do. And one of them was that your emotional needs are being met by your children. And I think that is what this is talking about is that we cannot rely on our children to meet our emotional needs. Maybe we're not getting it from our spouse, or maybe we don't have a spouse.  So first of all, we got to figure out, you know, like you said, Amy, diving into your story of origin, how you were raised,  where's that coming from? And then working that out with God and with a counselor. So we're not using our children as a confidant. I don't think there's anything wrong with a family culture of that we care for one another, you know, it's really only in Western culture, where families,  grandparents don't some,  live, they live in the same houses.  We have some neighbors that there's a multi-generational family living in the same house. And they're from a different culture, and it's sometimes it's our Western thinking, I think that makes us feel like everybody has to be completely independent. And no one should ever have any responsibility.  The Bible says in love are supposed to serve one another. But I think it's when we put undue things on the other children that that just I think requires a lot of wisdom. I think it requires a lot of awareness and prayer. And like I said, I've been through a situation recently where we lost one of our son's doctors who did surgery on him for nine years. And the way that we lost this doctor was very unexpected and not tragic, but just really, I was blindsided by the whole thing and I've been grieving it and I was talking to my counselor about it and she said, You know, it's okay to talk to your son about, Mom's having a really hard time with this and being honest about how I was feeling asking him questions, but I'm not going to him relying on him to emotionally support me in this.  , Adam Young, I've mentioned this before on the podcast, but hehas on his website he has about attachment styles and the six things, the big six things that a child needs from their parents. And we can put the link again in the show notes. But I think that those are just so key. And his podcast has several episodes where he talks about how we tend to parent, and things trigger us in our parenting from ways that we weren't parented. And so it is so important for us, I think, to dive again into that story of origin and to look at those things. And, and to work through them with God and a a really good counselor who understands the story.. 

Sara: And I agree, I think it's, that's one of the reasons why we're such big proponents of therapy, not only for ourselves, but for our children too, because that way they can go to their therapist, and we have to be open to our children saying, This is how I feel, I feel that I am not ready to take on these responsibilities. And to even if we're saying, I asked you to clean,I did not manipulate you into cleaning  that closet. You know, I mean, there's just take a breather, walk away. Not that I'm not saying my son is upset about cleaning out a closet when he's listening to this. And like, I did say anything about a closet. But I think it's it's what lies behind what you're asking. It's the emotional support, you're asking your child to be for you. It's the manipulation, you might be asking, you know, I am a caregiver 24/7, all I'm asking you to do is to go grocery shopping for me, so I can get a break.

They're 16, they just got a license, maybe that's not exactly the way you should go about it for them, you know, whatever that might be. It is it's it's the process behind it. It's the thought behind it, or the manipulation that might be happening behind it. 

 Carrie: I think too, just real quick, when you if your kids are little, obviously they may not be able to articulate this in a lot of words and things like that. And I think it's, you just have to let your other kids know, that they're seen. When they're acting out? What's the reason behind that? And not just reacting in anger and frustration, but okay, well, maybe I haven't spent very much time with this other child. And they do need me.  Maybe it is time to ask for some outside help for our child with needs. Or if that's if that's possible. I know that's not always possible, but it is it is a hard balance. But I think just being aware, go ahead, Amy, what were you gonna say?

 Amy: I want to say I want to piggyback on that is that it's paying attention. And I know, I don't mean, because you're so we are so busy with being caregivers that we have to sit and stare at other kids constantly but there's a lot of paying attention. We know our kids, some kids are more volatile, some kids, you know, will hide, hide it under and we just learned to know their tells it doesn't take us a long time. And when those things happen, we have to give them opportunities, like you said, to express what they're feeling. One thing, and this is for moms of little kids that my therapist suggested I do for little kids that can articulate is they would draw a picture when they were upset, what are you feeling like and my son, I'll name him, Evan would draw a big black heart and scribble black, he was so mad. And then we would do some calming, and he comes to find me, and I'd read it to him. And then I go now draw what you feel like and then he draws like a happy face. And just that little bit of him tactile little fingers in coloring content, but also helped him see okay, he started being able to understand. So when he's older, he can come to me and explain to me that he's upset. Now the other thing I want to mention is we interviewed AundI Kolber, I'll put the link in the show notes. And one thing she said, I specifically asked her a question if you haven't listened to this episode,it's   about how we help non-Special Needs siblings. And she gave this really great analogy of if you have really fine china and you're moving across the country, you're going to bubble wrap that because you don't want it to break. Now, it may get jostled, but you don't want it to break . Because in emergent situations are all hands on deck, you may be asking the siblings to do something that they normally wouldn't do. But when that moments passed, you should have enough bubble wrap around them, whether that's time with them, or, you know, certain ways that you respond to them, that centers them again. And sometimes that's not us, it's a grandparent or somebody they should feel safe with. But that analogy I thought was super helpful. Typically  when things go out of control, and we're asking our kids to do too much. Our first go-to is guilt like I shouldn't have done that. And you know, they don't have a childhood, you know all the things. And so she said, first of all, regulate yourself, and then go, you know, back to that bubble wrap kid and just say, Okay, let's, let's settle, let's settle. And I thought that was really helpful. And like I said, I'll put that in the show, because it was so helpful to think about it. There's no right or wrong. I mean, there obviously is wrong. I mean, the things that you shouldn't ask your kid to do, but sometimes we're going to ask him to do things, and it just is what it is. But if we can regulate them again, and not let them as you said the seen, I think that is the key. 

 Sara: You know, that actually brings up a good point, Amy, that I never actually put it together with this question. But my oldest Connor who's neurotypical, we always had something that we always I always called it just date night, and which he hated. By the way, whenever he got to about the age of 14, he loved it. 

Amy: And I hope you rubbed it in. 

Sara :Oh, yeah. And then then I made sure to say it's date night. 

Amy: I knew you would.

Sara: But I made sure that on date night, it was all about him. And there was no mention of his brother, there was nothing to do with his brother, we didn't even go close to anything that his brother light was nothing, nothing came in. That wasn't about my eldest son. It was nothing extravagant. Maybe it was just going for a simple ice cream cone. Or maybe he just came with me. And he got to pick out all the grocery items for breakfast or something, you know, like, it didn't have to be extravagantly expensive, but it was about him. And basically, sometimes I would look at my husband and say Connor struggling a little bit, he seems to be a little bit off, I think I need to do a date night. And we would we would call a date night. Because my husband and I would because we knew he needed to be, I felt something was off. And it wasn't like mission finding. And it wasn't like sleuthing, I just felt like he may be just needed to know we were here for him. And so it wasn't me asking a bunch of questions, but it was just letting him know, hey, I'm not just here for your brother, I'm here for you too. And so sometimes we're just going out and doing that. So sometimes, it's not so much saying, going above and beyond to let them know that you're not going to ask too much of them. It's just making it about them. Like you said, it's maybe just that bubble wrap is more so of once you're done moving them across countries taking that bubble wrap off and just saying, Okay, you're good to go, let's let's just sit down. And I just made sure every once in a while there was a time where I would just check in with him and let him know, life isn't normal. I would never ever tell him that our life was typical, like it was it was like his friends. But every once awhile, I just wanted to make sure he knew I was here for him. And I didn't do it when we were in crisis mode. I did it regularly. So he knew that there was a time and there was times where he would come to me when he was older. He is 22 right now, and actually going to be 23 here very, very shortly this month, he will say, Hey, do you have time for date night? Even now, even with a girlfriend. So he will say do you have time for date night? And granted, he's broke. He's college kid, but he's hungry. But he's he'll just say it now. And sometimes it's just a matter of just wanting to have that time together. Don't wait for crisis mode. Right? Yeah. 


 Carrie: Amy, you said something earlier about how your kids know, they they know. And they knew that they can always come to you and tell you anything. And I think that's jus a family culture that just builds over time from the time that they're little that you are willing to, you're able to regulate when they're when they're not regulating while you're able to handle their anger. And you know, and I'm not saying we don't all lose it and get angry with our kids. But then I think one of those six things that kids needs is is that willingness to repair. And to say, You know what, mommy shouldn't have said these things. I should not have reacted this way. And I'm sorry. And, you know, I think when our kids see humility in us, and that, you know, we're working hard to like, stay attuned, you know, to set up date nights and in that and listen to them really, truly listen to them.I think I think they're going to be okay.

Amy: I do, too. And I will say this, and I may have said this on the podcast., I have adult children, and they talk to me, and sometimes they tell me too much. And I have a very calm face, like, Tell me more. But I was thinking about this the other day, there was an issue with one of my adult kids and I thought, Okay, do I need to talk to him about this? And I thought no, and then I felt like God said because I was rereading Growing Slow by Jennifer Dukes Lee, you have lovingly tended these plants with diligence. You've not done it perfectly. You have lovingly tended these plants, you can trust me with this. And I think that's important to remember that I think we have this catastrophic idea that we're going to ruin them for life. That you're right, that open communication. And, back to what you said about they are seen for who they are. And I will often tell my kids my adult kids " I love who you are", and that does require, as I said, Before listening to the whole plot of the stupid Marvel Universe, which I still don't understand. Or a Lego creation, you have no clue what it is. And there's all backstory, those little moments  they matter. And I'm here to tell you, because I've 30,28, 23. All my kids, almost all my kids are adults , they matter. And so my 30-year-old calls me and tells me the name, he's a fourth-grade teacher of every single kid in his class, I look at the class picture. He knows I care, and I'm not faking it. I was faking during the Marvel stuff. Straight up, admit it. But I care because he cares. And it brings me back to that. And I always say this, and I don't know where the verses I think it's, Paul says, We were delighted to share our live's with you. So we can be delighted and what they're delighted in. And that I think is one of the ways that they really feel seen. 

Sara:  I think that's why we have a tribe with each other as well, is because we can bounce things off of each other. And then we don't rely on our children for that emotional support. And I think the fact that we're asking how do we not put this burden on our children? What how do we not be? Have our children be the emotional support? How do we not have them be the practical support in a family? That's because I can Voxer Carrie and Amy and say," Okay, so this is what's going on, "instead of going to my child's room and saying, okay, Connor, I really need you to come do this. I think that that's the important thing. You set up systems and people in your life that are that person. When Connor was little in it first hat when we first got that diagnosis, I went to a minister, youth minister in our church, I went to the music minister in our church, because my son was loving guitar lessons. And I said, here's what's going on, can you pay a little bit more attention to him? So his mom doesn't have to be that person. And they they did, they would take them out to eat, they would go play basketball with him, they would do things with him. And I think that's another way to is just to put some extra people in his life. That's like, not mom. That's not dad. You just you build those relationships and help them build other relationships with therapists with friends.You build relationships yourself too, because you need people that are going to speak truth into your life who are going to do that foundation. 

Carrie: The fact that moms are even asking this question shows that they care. 

Amy: Well, ladies, I knew we wouldn't get to all the questions. We have more questions. And first of all, thank you once again to the listeners who wrote in and gave us these questions. And if we didn't get to yours, we will get to it on another episode. I think this might be a semi-regular addition to what we do here at take heart. So anyway, thank you so much for listening. Today. We are here to serve you and reach out to us anytime. With any questions or any support. We love to hear from our listeners. We'd love to hear their stories.And if like I said, we will put everything in the show notes, anything we mentioned books, Adam Young, all that. So thank you for joining us today.