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Living Life Open-Handed: An Interview With Johnna Hensley

• Amy J Brown, Carrie Holt and Sara Clime • Season 3 • Episode 132

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Carrie talks with author Johnna Hensley, a mother of three biological and three adopted children, including her firstborn son, who has a trach and a ventilator. We hear the thought processes behind their decision to foster, then adopt more children with an open-handed willingness to follow God’s leading.  They call it walking in "yes" and being open to what God has, even if it leads to difficult circumstances. Throughout the episode, Johnna emphasizes the importance of faith in God's sovereignty and generosity and His promise to provide.

Ep. 132; June 13, 2023

Key Moments:
[2:45] Supporting her son's grief journey 
[5:51] Importance of giving autonomy to children when they are able 
[7:00] Deciding to become adoptive parents after biological children and a diagnosis 
[10:31] Walking in "yes" until it became a "no"  
[13:11] The world’s brokenness makes heaven brighter
[17:18] What I would say to my younger self

Resources:
Johnna Hensley’s Website
Johnna’s Instagram & Facebook
The Bible Recap Podcast
Reckless Yes

If you enjoyed the show:

Carrie M Holt: My guest today is Johnna Hensley. Johnna is an author, blogger, speaker, and all-time coordinator of chaos. Managing her family of eight, built through biology and adoption, means there's rarely a dull moment in her days. Through her writing, Johnna boldly shares the eternal hope and restoration heaven offers. She and Ryan, her husband of 18 years, reside in the suburbs of Dallas, Texas, and are avid supporters of foster care, adoption, disability awareness and advocacy, as each has impacted their family. When the chaos subsides, you'll find Johnna is spending time outdoors, enjoying an early morning workout, or on the patio of a Tex-Mex restaurant with friends. Her book Reckless Yes:  Exchanging Worldly Ease for God's Eternal Adventure was released on June 6th. I hope you enjoy this interview with Johnna today. 

Thank you for being on the podcast today. Johnna, would you tell our listeners just a little bit about yourself and your parenting journey?

Johnna: Sure. I am a mom of six, and I have kids ranging from a 15-year-old son with a disability all the way down to a set of two-year-old twins all over the place there.

Carrie: You and I met, I think, many years ago through a Facebook group or something like that, maybe even prior to that. Will you share a little bit about your special needs parenting journey and what that has looked like?

Johnna: Sure, yeah. I was reflecting on that today of how we had met, and the special needs community of moms is so tight-knit, virtually, though. We're all over the country. Yes, so you and I share one thing in common. We've got sons who have a trach and vent and a whole whole lot of things that we kind of work with. My journey, probably similar to yours, when I was pregnant, I learned that my son had a neural tube defect. He's my oldest. I had no point of reference for this experience at all. I was just a young, naive 24-year-old girl whose world was crumbling. He was born and went to the NICU. 
He had his first surgery at five days old to repair this opening in his back, in his spine. He went on to be in NICU for seven months. His case is more severe. He has a trach and a vent, which led to a lot of lung issues for us. The other thing that we dealt with him was he had a blood clot when he was in NICU in his gut, just a one-off random thing. So he lost quite a bit of a small intestine. We deal with short gut issues, trying to keep weight on him. He's got a continuous feeding pump that goes. We have the vent and the trach. We've got Spina Bifida mobility issues, so we have a foot in a lot of different areas of this life. He is health-wise in a good place. He's quite sassy and sarcastic and sense of humor, very social, and loves people. He's a delight, though a high-maintenance one, but he's a lot of fun. 

Carrie: Do you feel like your son has been on his own journey with grief, and how have you walked through that with him?

Johnna: Yeah, because he's 15. We're dealing with regular teenage emotions and those things. We have. I've been alongside him on his grief journey for many years. As grief does, it comes in waves. I notice the seasons when it's heavier on him, and then there are other seasons where it's okay. He's comfortable with it. Right now, I'd say he's in a good place. I would be more of the one who's struggling with the grief, just him being a teen now and his peers are driving, and it doesn't seem to bother him, but it bothers me. We kind of bounce off of one another, and we're both very open about it. That's always been huge for us. We want to keep the communication open. When he's having a rough day, or he's feeling sad and depressed, being attuned to that and sitting with him and the sadness. Nothing I say or do will change the circumstance, but I can join him in that. Then on the days when I'm in the pit, he can join me, and we know how each other feels. It helps to Have somebody there with you when you're going through it.

Carrie: Sorry, I didn't mean to throw that question at you. Being in a similar stage with Toby, it's interesting to me that it's not something that they prepare you for in all of those prenatal appointments when. If your child is cognitively aware, they're also going to walk through their own grief journey. I love what you said about listening and sitting. I have noticed that because we spend so much time with our kids in different medical settings, especially since you homeschool too; my son can read my face and my mood, even sometimes better than I even understand what's going on in my own body. Have you found that with your son also? 

Johnna: Yes, he's in tune with everything around him, to me, to the vibe, all of it. I think for us, it's, again, being open and bringing him into any kind of big decisions or medical things, or appointments. I want him to take ownership of his life. We have pushed that so hard for all of these years. We had an orthopedic appointment to discuss scoliosis. It's a 130-degree curve. Do we have surgery? What do we do? I'm feeling the doctor's vibe. I'm wondering if Hayden's feeling it, and I'm like, speak up. It's your body. It's your life. You tell me what you want to do. He does; he is able to say, I don't want to risk that, and can weigh in. He's aware of what's happening, thank goodness, and helps us to make difficult decisions because there are so many difficult decisions. When he was little and tiny in NICU, it was just up to us to sign the consent, things that we were just hoping and praying were wise. Now he gets to weigh in and say yes or no because it is his life. It's his body. I want him to have that autonomy in those experiences.

Carrie: I think that's so good. It's I think it's good for our listeners to hear that it is important when our children are able that hand that autonomy over to them and give them the tools to make decisions. I know we've been in that same stage too. Let's switch gears a little bit. I know that in recent years have also become an adoptive mom. First of all, I know a lot of times, especially in the world with Spina Bifida, we get the questions. We know that Spina Bifida can happen again with biological children. Sometimes we get the question, how did you decide to have more children? You can skip over that question if you'd like. How did you decide to become adoptive parents? How did you and your husband decide to become adoptive parents?

Johnna: Yes. No, I get it. We look crazy. It's a zoo over here. To speak to that, Hayden was my firstborn, I do have two more biological sons. I was hesitant at first to move forward because I was terrified of the many, many things I'd seen in seven months of a NICU. We kind of worked through that. God opened my eyes, really comforted me, and told me whatever kid you get is for my glory and not yours. We sort of walked through that. We had two more sons, and praise God. They were healthy. We would have loved them, anyway. That was not their lot. They are healthy. We were rocking along. We had three boys. They were all in school or school-aged. We felt this conviction, this calling, this challenge to begin to dip our toe into fostering. I feel like people look at foster parents and think that I think everyone should do it. I don't. Everybody rest easy. But for us and our family in that season, that was something we were being led to. Our journey was that we begin to investigate some agencies. I mean, it's pretty obvious our circumstance, and here's Hayden, here's our family. We knew good and well that they could turn us away, but we wanted to offer our family our home. Then, we kind of put the ball in their court. Right. Our method, if you will, is that we were walking in a yes until it was a no. Calling up the agency that was us being faithful to what we felt God was leading us to it. Going up to the informational meeting, going to the classes, each of these tiny little steps were us saying, yes, God, here we are, knowing full well that it could become a no. They could have turned us away, or Hayden could have been sick, or a million things could have happened. We were trying to be faithful in those little things. We actually got licensed just to provide respite care, which is short-term care, two weeks or less. We were doing that. Through a turn of events, one of our respite kiddos needed to be in a full-time placement. That kind of came up. It's a whole journey that led us to, as you said, we are adoptive parents now. We ended up adopting three kids in two years. They're all siblings, and it was never something we saw coming. I don't want to say it's not something we sought out, but again, we were walking in yeses and trying to be faithful, and God grew our family, six kids. That's what we're trying to steward, well, in the chaos, and the madness over here.

Carrie: I love how you said that walking in yes until it wasn't no. That's part of having a faith journey, no matter what your path is. As you said, your path may not be foster care or adoption. Our pastor always says that our yes is always on the table when God asks. I think that's so important. I know some of our listeners are barely keeping their heads above water and the circumstances that they're in. What word of encouragement would you give to them? If they're thinking, how do I balance my life, even as it is in these circumstances? Because I know you're balancing a lot also.

Johnna: Oh, balance is hard, isn't it?

Carrie: It is. Actually, I think the word, the word is being faithful. It's not balanced all the time. Right? It can't be? 

Johnna: I think part of it is, is kind of to your point of putting the yes out on the table, right? It's being aware and being open and having these ears to hear God is leading me somewhere, not necessarily foster care, but it could be all kinds of things. Maybe it's writing a note to your neighbor who just became a widow. Maybe it's praying for a foster family. It could be anything. Being in tune in and being available and listening. It's hard because, as you said, this is the life we're living, but rather than being consumed with all the things we have to do, to be open-handed, and just say, "Okay, God, you already know about my chaos. Is there something more that you have for me? Is there a way you like to grow my faith? Help me to be open-handed and see what it is that you might be calling me to." That was the thing for us was, when things had settled down with our kids, and Hayden was in a good place. We had nursing staff, and he was healthy. It was like we had a moment to breathe, and to say, "Okay, God, wait a minute, are you doing something new?" It's exciting when he does something new.

Carrie: For sure. Maybe someone's listening, and they're feeling a tug in that direction of foster care, or they feel like God is calling them to something new. First of all, do you have a word of wisdom for them? Secondly, what's one way you have seen God show up when you've had your yes on the table?

Johnna: So the thing about God showing up? I think it's that he's sustaining us in this. I have enough wisdom to look at our family and go, oh, my gosh, people are seeing us from the outside and thinking, what is going on over there? 
They don't even fit in one car. He's showing up because he's sustaining us. He is literally day to day, moment to moment. He sustains our family. He's called us to this, and he won't abandon us, and I know that. I know that he won't, and so he's showing up in that way. He's given us a story in a way to point others to him. I love that he allows us to be a part of his story of the kingdom. We're allowed to live our lives, whether it's with one kid or eight kids. You have this opportunity to let your light shine to point others to Christ, to share the hope of the kingdom and eternity. I'm so thankful for that hope, and I'm passionate about it. We talk about it in our homes and amongst the kids because the world is broken. It's so broken. We can look at our kids' bodies, and we see it's broken. We can bring kids into our home from broken places, and I got the reminders. I know the world is broken. What that's doing for me, and hopefully for my kids, is it's making the hope of heaven even brighter. Because I can tangibly see what will be restored one day, and I'm thankful for that. If somebody is interested in saying yes to whatever it is God's calling, if they're ready to open-handed say, "Here I am, send me," specific to foster adoption, if that's lighting them up, you will look into some agencies. Maybe find a foster family, start asking questions, do the next thing, not just make a list, but go do something? Chat. Have a conversation. Explore. Because as I said, it could be a no, and that's fine, but it's your faithful yes. I would say bringing in community is really important, too. Let them hear your ideas. I think God's calling me to this. Can you pray for me about it? Can you help? Let's bounce some ideas. Help me talk it out. Let's look for clarity. Let's ask God for confirmation that this is what he's saying. Bringing in some people alongside you to walk that journey would be great.

Carrie: I think that's so good. I was recently at a conference where I think it was Paul David Tripp was speaking. He was talking about how God's generosity is just this ongoing theme. Throughout Scripture, we see his generosity through creation, we see his generosity through creating Adam and Eve, and sin came into the world. Then obviously, the ultimate generosity through Jesus. I think that when we change our mindset to living from a place of God is with us. He's going to sustain us. We have everything that we need, then we can also live from a place of generosity, and that it all belongs to Him. Our family belongs to him, our home Everybody's generosity looks different, right? Yours looks different than mine, and it looks different than the person who's sitting across the way in the church. All of our callings look very different. I think God has wired us each individually for that. That's a beautiful way that we shine the light of God. If you could go back, think about yourself and the beginning of your journey, first of all, having your first son with special needs, and give yourself one piece of advice. What would you tell yourself? If you can pick one?

Johnna: I think about this a lot. I've said this before, sort of, kind of jokingly, but if somebody had come to me when I was that 24-year-old little girl standing in the NICU, day of life one, going, "What are we doing? What is neonatology? 
If someone showed up and told me where this thing was gonna go, and look, you're gonna be here for seven months, and then you're gonna go on to have a million more surgeries, and it's going to be exhausting. I would have just laid down, rolled over, and been done. I couldn't have done it. The same when we showed up to that first little foster care class. If someone had said, "Hey, girl, you're gonna adopt three kids in a two-year timespan, are you ready?" I would have run away. It's so hard, with hindsight, to look back. Here's the advice I would give—the final answer. I would go back to her, and I would say, read your whole Bible, the whole thing, the entire thing. Know him. Know God. Know who he is. Know that he's faithful. I grew up in the church, and I've done a million Bible studies. I've read my Bible and stuff. I'd never read the whole story. For whatever reason, it had never clicked with me who he is. You're right, he's generous. When I was able to do that and read through the Bible, and read it every single year. That's when it all changed for me that he is so kind. What looks like a mess is actually such a gift. It is such a gift. My advice would be to read your Bible, read the whole thing, and get the Bible Recap, which is a commentary podcast. Learn what you're doing. Understand what and who he is, and then from that space, you can navigate anything. You can navigate the disability, the job loss, the adopting kids, and the wayward adult child. Whatever it is, you can operate in the safety of his faithfulness, in who he is, and trusting his sovereignty. I wish I'd had a better grasp of that earlier in our journey. I got there, and I got there in the time that I needed to. That's one thing I would go back to that young little girl in NICU and talk to her about.

Carrie: Yeah, I think that's so so good because the Bible is an amazing story. If we let him, he will write our stories, help us to share our stories, and display his glory through us. I know that you have a very special upcoming project that you've been working on. I'm very excited about this. I'd love to hear about that. I'm sure our listeners would love to hear about that, too. 

Johnna: In and amongst all the chaos. Thank the Lord, I have finished writing my first book. I get to share about our story, and my book is called Reckless Yes: Exchanging Worldly Ease for God's Eternal Adventure. It is our memoir. It's my memoir with lots of Bible mixed in there, pointing out God's character and challenging the reader to think of ways, like we said to be open-handed. Where can I say yes? The title, Reckless Yes, is because I know that the world might look at us as believers and think we're crazy. It doesn't make sense on this side of heaven. It's about that eternal adventure, eternity, and that restoration that's to come. That book comes out in June, and I'm very excited. There'll be an e-book coming out in May and then a paperback. We'll have an audiobook that I get to record myself, which I'm very, very excited about.

Carrie: Where can our listeners find you on social media? I know I've been following your Instagram and your Facebook.

Johnna: I'm there in both of those places. My Instagram is usually toddler messes, and then Hayden and I hop in on there, and it's a mess. @johnna.hensley is my Instagram handle. I'm on Facebook. I have an author page that I just got started. Also, I have a website, www.johnnahensley.com. You can find all my blogs there. Hopefully, I'm gonna get a newsletter up and going.

Carrie: We will have links to all this in the show notes. I was reading your blog a couple of weeks ago, and it was just beautiful. Thank you for being a guest today. 

Johnna: Great to catch up and get to chat. Thank you for having me.