Take Heart

Navigating Transitions as a Caregiver

• Amy J Brown, Carrie Holt and Sara Clime • Season 4 • Episode 161

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0:00 | 46:59

As caregivers, we are well acquainted with transitions, and very much so in regard to our children. In this collaborative, Amy, Sara, and Carrie discuss the difficulties of life transitions as parents. They talk about their personal experiences, including making medical decisions and educational changes. The challenges of balancing autonomy and outside influences, going against medical recommendations, and seeking guidance for decisions are all discussed. We hope this episode offers valuable insights and practical tips for you!

Key Moments:
[2:20] 4 different types of transitions
[7:59] Planned our son’s birth…but have learned our lesson
[11:25] We don’t use ‘never’ when it comes to health
[24:34] Comparing to others make transitions harder
[35:30] Balancing hope and grief 


Resources:
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ace.193

Hospital Stay Guide by Carrie M. Holt: Listen to Episode 140, “Hospital Stay Survival: Spiritually & Practically.” You can access the transcript with links to her guide HERE. 

If you enjoyed the show:

Amy J. Brown (00:00.078)
When I think about the transitions that happen like a hospitalization or something that we have no control over, in some ways I do better with those. I think the hardest transitions have been the ones that I've had some agency in. Like for example, it's time for me to walk out of a room. It's time for me to leave a situation that doesn't serve me anymore. For an example I will give is, you know, I was a homeschool mom for 19 years and I always planned to homeschool. When I had to stop homeschooling, that was a very hard decision because I felt like I was failing. 

Sara Clime
Welcome to Take Heart, a podcast about creating space for connection, hope and joy as a mom to a child with disabilities or special needs. We want you to feel connected and encouraged as we navigate this messy, emotional, joy-filled life together. Hi, I'm Sara Clime, and I'm here with Carrie Holt and Amy Brown, and you're listening to episode 161. Today we're talking about life transitions.

If you've been listening to the Take Heart podcast over the past few years, you may have noticed that this being the first episode of the month would typically be an episode from Amy. We figured this would be a perfect time to talk about the transitions Take Heart is going through as well. Make sure to stay tuned to the end of this episode where we share our transitions here at Take Heart. We are so excited to serve you, our listener, better. 

Sara Clime
So, I'm what my grandma would call a straight shooter. I heard that my entire childhood. And I really didn't know what that meant until I got older. Basically, I mean what I say, and if I say it, I will say it directly to whomever is involved. As a client of mine says, I value directness and warmth. I always try to be kind, but honesty is a value of mine. With that said, the word transitions doesn't sound like a straight-shooter word to me, because transitions at their core are simply changes - some good, some bad, some indifferent, yet some we have no idea how they'll pan out in the long run. Sharon B. Miriam, she is a professor of adult education at the University of Georgia, and she has an extensive and impressive education and a list of accolades I won't go into. But Miriam has broken down life transitions into four different types. There are so many different theories and stances of life transitions, but I like the simplicity of how she explains them. In fact, many other experts have adopted these same four types.

Sara Clime (02:23.182)
They are anticipated transitions, unanticipated, non-event, and sleeper. She says each type has their own understanding, challenges, and growth opportunities. 

So, the first type is anticipated. Those are the transitions in life we expect to happen. I just snorted because I think that those are rarely, that's like the least likely to happen. Anyway.

Carrie M. Holt
It doesn't happen with special needs parents. 

Sara Clime
Right? I mean, I think maybe other people are like, yeah, anticipate it. I'm like, whatever. Anyway, I digress. The second type is unanticipated transitions, which are obviously those we had no idea were going to happen. I think that's the bulk. I think that might explain our life right there. 

Carrie M. Holt
Exactly. 

Sara Clime
The third type is non -event. And those are the transitions we anticipated, we planned for, but they never happened, or at least they didn't happen in the way or the time that we expected them to.

And the fourth type is sleeper transitions. Those are the sneaky ones. They might be gradual. Kind of, I think of these like how we as caregivers learn to care for our children. Those are gradual over time. And before we know it, we're like, oh, yeah, we kind of know what we're doing a little bit until the unanticipated comes through. Or maybe kind of how, Carrie, how you are a runner and how you train for your 5K or your half marathons. You just don't go out and run those, you train for them. It's over a period of time, it's gradual. So I think those are like sleeper transitions. They just, maybe they're not all sneaky, but they just happen over a gradual period of time. So, with those four types in mind, and I have a few questions, friends, so strap in. And so if you're listening, they've already been like, these stink. But I think it's the questions that we don't necessarily want to answer, that I think those listening probably want to hear more too, because I think that these are the ones, if we find them difficult, we're not the only ones that find them difficult, unfortunately. So speaking of difficult, why do we find transitions so difficult? Based on our own past experiences, why do transitions continue to be difficult? Even the ones we anticipate. 

Carrie M. Holt (04:47.118)
But though the first word I wrote down was painful. Painful. It's just painful. Yeah. The changes. Change is hard. And I think too, there's just, in a lot of transitions, there's loss. And loss must be grieved. And there are times that we're afraid to grieve. We don't want to grieve or we don't realize that we need to. 

Amy J. Brown
Yeah. And I would say, I agree with you, Carrie. Also, we like to be in control. And there's so much of our life that's not in our control. And obviously, it's so much in everybody's life that's not in their control but it seems kind of magnified in our lives as parents of kids with special needs. And controlling sounds like a bad word, but really underneath control is fear. Fear of what if I can't do this? What if it doesn't happen the way I thought it was gonna do? What if this wrecks me? What am I leaving behind? What am I walking into? And so I think that's why they're so hard. You can plan for them all you want, but it doesn't ever look like you think it would. And I'm just going to say, you're for Sara, non-event. There's never a non-event. I know that's a different, but I'm like, we need a different word. When has there been a non-event? I don't know. 

Sara Clime
I don't like to think myself as a negative person, but when I read non-event, I'm like, are those the good transitions? Are those the ones I talk about? And I was like, wow, that was a negative take on that one. And I think, for me, I'm a systems girl. I like routine, I like organization, and I like systems. And I think like both of you said, just to kind of my own take on it is, we're never gonna plan for worst case scenario. I mean, we do, but I don't think our brains go to really how difficult it can be. And I think there's part of us that if we set up these systems and routines and processes and organization, and we organize it and we do all the things and that somehow we're going to redirect the grief, maybe redirect the change. And that's not always how it works. And I think also those of us with children who are on the spectrum, those who they like their routines, they don't like transitioning even from one good thing to a better thing. Transitions can make it so much more difficult because not only are you trying to deal with your own emotions, but you're trying to transition awfully for your child as well. 

Sara Clime (07:12.718)
You know, there there's those transitions that I anticipate that are difficult sometimes. And I think it's because life will always throw you a curveball always. And this is I am nowhere a baseball fan, so I have no idea why this analogy just popped up. But my husband is going to listen to this and laugh and be like, why are you talking about baseball? But it's just curveball. But like you can swing for the fences and you can hit a homerun sometimes. But there's every once in a while you're going to get hit by the ball or your own bat.

That's how I feel. It's like, I'm like, all right, I can hit it. I can hit it. And all of a sudden I hit myself with the bat or somebody bings me with a ball. So anyway, in your opinion, can can someone prepare for certain life transitions? I know we just talked about that. But if you've ever tried to prepare, what has been your experience? 

Carrie M. Holt
So I can say that I did try to prepare for the birth of our son with a disability. And I probably had a list a mile long. I mean, we toured the hospital, we toured the NICU, we met with all the surgeons, we had his birth date planned down to the hour of the day and what would happen that day and who would be with the kids, our other two boys at home, who would be with Toby, who would then be with him when he was transported to a different hospital. I had my hospital grade breast pump rented. I had, I mean, literally every single detail that you can think of, including when we would celebrate Christmas with my side of the family that year, which was the day I was released from the hospital after having a C-section, by the way, which is just insanity. And then, you know, at the time of this recording, all the anniversaries are happening and it's, yeah, so tomorrow is the anniversary of my son coding and ending up in the ICU and in respiratory failure. So I think that experience taught me early on that you can do all the planning that you want. And like you said, Sara, like I've often used that phrase life just threw us a curve ball and we had to adjust and anticipate and then, and then live life the next several months, sometimes hour by hour. 

Amy J. Brown
Yeah. I'm thinking about that situation, Carrie, and about times in my life where I have planned something down to the detail. And I think that makes us feel safe. 

Carrie M. Holt
Yeah. 

Amy J. Brown (09:38.158)
We've got it under control. But I think we can intentionally plan in that way, but we have to hold it kind of lightly. I know for me, I really wanted to parent and love well to my children. So what I would do, what I have done is, you know, when my oldest Davis was like 12, so he was the oldest, I didn't, he's getting ready to enter the teen years. I went and I talked to a mom I really admired who had older kids. And not to do everything she did, but I just wanted her to tell me what she'd learned.

So that was an intentional way for me to prepare. I did the same thing when I had kids entering adulthood, talked to somebody I admired, like, how do you transition to this? And so that gave me some guidelines, but I had to hold them loosely. I was not prepared for what happened with our adoption. Like, I had no idea that this would be ours. So I didn't have a way to prepare for that. But I also want to say that I think God prepares us for things.

We'll go back and go, oh yeah, I read that article about this, or I talked to this person. And so as I think about preparing, I think we have to not perseverate on all the what ifs, but to hold it loosely. And I think that's the only way we can. Because like you said, you know, stuff's gonna go sideways. So that's kind of how I've approached the things that I knew. Like I know my kids are gonna be teenagers, but some stuff you just can't. And then you get in the weeds of it and there's grief and all those emotions and you don't know which ends up. And so that I think in those moments is when we have to take a step back and go, okay, I'm in this. And this is like a transition doesn't normally happen within like a two hour period. It's a long thing. So I think we can step back and go, okay, take a breath. How can I in the midst of the transition be a little bit more prepared to walk through it? 

Carrie M. Holt
Yeah. It's interesting that you say that because I just recently was having a conversation with Toby and we were talking about, who would do his next surgery like on his back. And I was trying to explain to him that he shouldn't need another surgery. He had a spinal fusion. That's usually a final thing. But I just always give the caveat, but your body can be very unique sometimes. We just don't always say, we don't say always and never. I will never say, you may, you're never gonna have, not gonna promise him that because we do have to hold.

Carrie M. Holt (12:02.35)
That's one thing I've learned, I think, especially after just the beginning of our journey was just so planned out and then tumultuous, I've learned just to hold it so loosely. 

Sara Clime
And kind of the same thing, I've just learned to have a learning posture of transitions, because I think sometimes we had a life transition and it is a practice run for future transitions. So, you know, at the end of 2023, my son fell and he needed a surgery.

And I learned a little more each time with each surgery and each fall that he has. And for those that are listening, he has muscular dystrophy and his legs are, or all muscles are just slowly deteriorating. And so his legs just give out on him and he's so stubborn. He just, he's still walking, which is great, but I have learned a ton from like Carrie, I've learned a ton from you. You are the expert on all things hospitals. So I prepared for future hospital stays. 

I had a list going of what I needed that I had gotten from you, which I think is great. And we'll put that in this, a link to the episode because I think it's phenomenal, but I prepare for future hospital stays hoping that that preparation is unwarranted, but it allows me a peace of mind now. So I think when you're in the middle of a transition or you're something happens, it's that learning posture of, okay, I'm not failing at this.

What is this trying to teach me? And I also ask myself all the time in all aspects of life, but especially this is, “to what end?” And so as I self-inflict the tangled thoughts that I'm up late worrying about things I can't control or trying to anticipate the unanticipated transitions, I'll ask myself, “Okay, Sara, to what end? To what end will the worrying help? To what end will the fear of upcoming changes help?” Especially amid those unanticipated transitions. How is that helping my son? How's that helping my family? How's that helping my, helping me? So, and I know whenever I ask that, and I even say that out loud every once in a while, but that's my way of just saying, chill. You know, if any husbands are listening to this, don't say chill. But we can ask, we can tell ourselves to chill out. That's just a little marriage advice right there.

Sara Clime (14:26.462)
All right, this is the one that I was like, ugh, I always ask questions that I don't even want to answer. So what has been the most difficult or profound, positive or negative transition in your life so far? 

Amy J. Brown
Okay, well, there's a lot of study you have. 

Sara Clime
You can't see. I wish sometimes we would record this because Amy's just like, deep breath, eye roll. 

Amy J. Brown
Okay. Actually, I thought about this question a lot and I don't want to, I'm gonna take the word profound out because that puts a lot of weight on me to pick one of the many, but when I think about the transitions that happen like a hospitalization or something that we have no control over, in some ways I do better with those. I think the hardest transitions have been the ones that I've had some agency in. Like for example, it's time for me to walk out of a room. It's time for me to leave a situation that doesn't serve me anymore. For an example I will give is, you know, I was a homeschool mom for 19 years and I always planned a homeschool. And let me say right now, whether you homeschool or go to public school, I'm not saying you should do either. When I had to stop homeschooling, that was a very hard decision because I felt like I was failing. I felt like I was going back on something I'd promised I would do. And I mean, people say this when they leave a church or, you know, like those situations where you have to walk out of a situation into a different one. I think those are the hardest because you don't, for me, I'm like, what is everyone gonna think? And what is it that? What if I make the wrong decision? And so I think those, and in my specific examples of my own children is the transitions of, you know, obviously the hardest transition I made was placing our daughter in residential treatment. That was ridiculously hard. And I second guessed myself a million times. You don't really second guess yourself maybe, I don't know. When you get in a hospital stay, it just happens. You know, you do probably a little bit like I'm sure you do. But my point is when you have to make the decisions to foster that transition, that is a very hard place to be. 

Sara Clime
That's a good point. Because like even when my son goes into the hospital, there's no time to think about how am I fostering this change or anything. It is just you go into mom mode and you go into advocate mode and you just you get the job done.

Sara Clime (16:44.014)
And so yeah, that's a really good point that you have to, it's when you are fostering those transitions or like you said, you're, you're an agent in those transitions. 

Carrie M. Holt
But I think Amy, you're right in that I feel very similar because we have gone into some planned hospital stays, planned surgeries where I have thought this is putting my kid through a lot of pain and agony. And to Sara's point earlier, to what end? Like, and at the time, he didn't have the autonomy or capacity to necessarily be making that decision for himself. So, I'm making it for him and all of a sudden, you know, it's like, what am I, what am I doing to him? You know, because I know this is probably going to better his life, but it's, it's going to be super rocky in the meantime, because it's major and different things like that. 

I think honestly right now, my son will be 18 in less than a year. And as he keeps telling me repeatedly, and we keep having the conversation about, you know, age is a number. We need to start showing capabilities of making adult choices on our own. And I think just anticipating, and not knowing, it's that fear of not knowing, at least in our instance, like, is he really gonna ever be able to be completely independent on his own? And we're trying to prepare that way, but then there's certain things where there's just this tension of giving him autonomy, but at the same time, I know there are things that he doesn't know or understand about his health because he doesn't remember those early days. He doesn't remember how, medically fragile he was, he doesn't. And so I right now we're just kind of in the middle of that tension, of learning to equip him and give him some control. But, you know, how much control do you give them where they make a huge mistake and it could really hurt himself. You know, he could really hurt himself. So it's just that's been really difficult right now. 

Sara Clime (19:07.726)
Yeah. And I think I can say I am so glad when we were, when I was earlier on, because it's been almost 12 years now that we've been in this and there wasn't the huge presence of social media to quote unquote help you through these transitions. And so I know there are certain groups that I am in, support groups, and they play a vital role sometimes.

But everyone has an opinion and everyone has an opinion on what is right and what they, some people feel that what is right for them is right for you. So, in our instance, you know, my son has 28 different medications and it is a cocktail of things that we are just hoping prolongs the life of his heart. Some people will like to say, “You shouldn't put that in. You shouldn't give him that. You shouldn't do that. You shouldn't do this.” I mean, heck, we're even coming off of a huge transition several years ago with COVID. Everyone had an opinion on what was right. And it might be right for you, might not be right for the next person. So I'm kind of, I am so glad that when I was learning and like you said, trying to make the decision for my child, hoping that I was making the right decision, that I didn't have all of these external influences telling me you're right, you're wrong. And so I think, all of that to say, is if you are going through a really difficult transition, I'm so grateful that I learned early on that it is between myself and my child to a certain degree, depending on their age, my husband. And if you're single, then it's you and maybe a trusted friend or a doctor, and God, I always, you know, I prayed to God, please direct me. And I can't tell you how many times I, I'm like, you can do a burning bush, just please. I would really appreciate a burning bush right now, but that's not going to happen. Sometimes we just have to, I think, be still in that moment and listen. And so whatever even, you know, whatever your, your beliefs are, just sometimes just sitting still on those transitions too, and just asking what you're trying to learn can make them a little less difficult, I think. 

Carrie M. Holt (21:27.916)
Yeah. And I think what's motivating you too, just. You know, is it fear? Is it control? Is it, you know, and like Amy, you were saying your decision with homeschooling, you know, I kind of had the opposite. Like my kids were in school and then we transitioned to homeschooling. And I just remember thinking, we're losing our entire community. We're going to have to rebuild it from the ground up, which we did. And what are people going to think and what are people going to say and how are people going to judge us? 

You know, it was, I always laugh because I used, we used to call our family the whole family circus because not only did I have three kids, three and under, we had a child in a wheelchair and then we chose to homeschool. So talk about like that fish going upstream against, you know, the current. And I think, just understanding, like you said, Sara, uh, I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt because I fought, I fought it. I fought God for several months and said no to him several times. And he just kept coming back saying, “I want you to do this.” And then, you know, I was like, okay, it's gonna take a huge step of faith in this new transition. And I think we all face that with our kids, whether it's a choice to step out of therapy. I think that's a huge one that parents are going, well, but if I don't do this, it's not gonna help my child. I feel like that's a huge one. We feel so much guilt over that. And we have to just say, okay, but, like you said, it's between God and me and my spouse or a trusted friend or family member. And sometimes it's even going against what the doctors might be highly recommending, you know? 

Sara Clime
Yeah. Don't get me started. There is, oh, we love our doctors now. So anybody who knows where we go, I love our doctors now. We had a little bit of an issue, but yeah. And I think sometimes maybe that's where I, maybe that's non-event transitions to use the homeschooling example. Never, I have had quite a few people, oh so do you homeschool your son? No. Well why not? And there's so much judgment around it. I'm like one because we don't want to kill each other for one and two, that wasn't what God was calling me to do. He needs the socialization that I could not give him at home. 

Sara Clime (23:47.438)
So I think sometimes that's a non-event transition, especially whenever it comes to the disability or special needs community, because I think that community has a lot more homeschooling than there is not. And so sometimes a non-event transition is just standing and knowing what is best for your family, yourself, and again, going back to the medication thing. I know that is what I feel is best for my child. Can I be wrong? Maybe. I don't know. But I'm doing what I feel is right. I'm doing what my husband and I have discussed. The doctors have discussed what I have said, listened to direction from God. So, sometimes the non -event transitions are as difficult. Maybe as the ones that you try to anticipate. 

Amy J. Brown
Can I add to that? I was just thinking about what you said about sometimes in a transition we're looking, we're not staying in our lane. We're looking at what everybody else is doing and comparing and that never leads to peace. If, you look at this family over here, that's doing all these therapies and that's so easy to do when you're trying to make things better and think, well, I'm not doing that. Maybe I should do that. You know, I had a conversation with a mom who has 10 kids and several kids like mine. And one of the things she said to me, she's older. And she said, you know what she said, “I wish I would have known about sitting still and having silence because I think I would have had different answers if I would have been quiet.” And that sentence has stuck with me so much because we kind of, you know, we're off to the races when there's a transition and there's a decision to be made and we're researching and talking to people and doing all the things. But I think it's so important, like you said earlier, a learning posture and some silence because what Carrie does may not be what I do and may not be what Sarah does. And that's okay. We have to trust God's going to lead us. We have to trust our own good judgment.

And just because somebody else is doing something differently, I don't think, I mean, it's, it's human nature to go, well, maybe they have, you know, grass is greener, but I think we need to stay in our lane. 

Carrie M. Holt
Yeah. And I would like to just encourage anybody listening to, you know, like that mom said to you, Amy, she wished she would have been silent more and she would have heard that differently. Is that the times that we feel like we didn't listen well, God's grace also covers that. Like he, he is sovereign over all of that. .

Carrie M. Holt (26:12.974)
And I'm not saying we just purposely go out and make wrong decisions and we don't try to sit in silence and all of that. But I do just want, because there have been times where I've looked back and said, “I missed that shunt failure and it caused this and this and this and this.” And I have beat myself up for it. But God's grace is there. Like he loves us and he's gonna, you know, create good out of even the things that we feel like maybe we messed up, too. 

Sara Clime
Right. Right. So the next question is, what are ways you have learned to cope with life's transitions? You know, what coping skills, strategies have you developed? How have you handled anticipated and unanticipated transitions? Or the ones that you've prepared for that never happened or the sleeper ones, whatever.

You know, recently, I'm gonna start this off just because as you guys were talking, it reminded me of this and I just think it's a good transition. But we have been through a huge transition lately and it seems like I'm living a life like a whack-a-mole game is what the only way it's like. I'm like, okay, I can handle this. I got it, I got it. And then I poke my head up above and life has that big heavy mallet and it just says, no, you don't.

And so it's just, it's constant one thing after another. And it's not even all to do with being a caregiver. It's in fact, I feel like the devil is standing in the corner with his arms folded, his legs crossed me like, what's this one? Let's see how she handles this. Like it's a big game almost. And my sister recently told me, I told her I was just so overwhelmed and I was so exhausted. And my sister and I don't cry a lot. And I, so I'm going to try this to say this without crying. But I told her I was so tired and she said, “Rest isn't your reward. It's your right and your responsibility. So don't tell me that you don't have the opportunity to rest. Take it because you have to and you are required to.” 

Sara Clime (28:32.014)
And that just really, you know, when she said, “rest isn't your reward,” I thought,
how often do I go through life and especially in transitions with my super mom cape on and think I don't have time to rest because what is it's maybe a pride thing if I'm going through all of these transitions and somebody sees me actually resting sitting on the couch reading a book Will they think I don't care? Will they think that I'm lazy? Will they think whatever I don't I haven't had a chance to really take that apart. I just know when she said rest isn't your reward, it's, you're right. It floored me. And I realized for the past decade or more, I've been not taking that right and responsibility seriously. And I think sometimes finding that rest is difficult. It's not finding that it's, it requires you to instigate transitions in your life. You have to say, okay, I have to rest. So in order to do that, this has to happen and those can be uncomfortable. It can be scary. It can be even giving up something that you like. There's all of these things that are going through that. Sorry to ask a question and hijack that. 

How have you guys learned to live with life's transitions or have you? Are you just like, we just play it, by the seat of our pants, that might be the way we do too.

Amy J. Brown
Well, one thing I will say is that's helped me is I'm going to term this term not to do what I call route talk. I hate route talk, but this is what I call route talk. Like if I'm going to your house and someone goes, I took this road, this road. Like I don't care how you got to my house. Just get in. So route talk is what I also call this. I know the transition is going to happen. So when it happens, I'm perseverating on, I'm going to have to change this and this is going to happen and what's going to happen here, And all that perseverating in my head or what I call route talk just about something that may happen, I don't know how it's gonna play out. I mean, there's a point of preparation, but it's over preparing. And I think that is what I've learned to quell. Like my grandma would call it barring trouble. I'm not gonna borrow trouble. When the time comes, and actually a therapist said to me, when it comes, you will handle it. You always have. God has always helped you. And she's, I don't know why I run around like a chicken with my head cut off, like in a crisis, I don't know what to do.

Amy J. Brown (30:57.102)
I've handled so many crises. I feel like I have like my black belt in it. So we will handle it when it comes. But all that thought around it just steals my peace. So definitely that's one way that I have learned when I start, you know, doing what I call route talk. I try to stop that. And also I'm going to go back to what you said, Sara, I was going through a transition and my therapist said, because you're going through this transition, you need more rest. And I thought, “What?” It was the same thing. Like, what? Are you kidding me? No, I don't because I’ve got to do all the things. And she said, not only do you need rest, you need more rest than you normally would. And I don't think we, that never occurred to me that I would need more rest in a transition. It never did. So we think rest is sleep. 

Sara Clime
Yeah. And we've said it on here before. Rest is not sleep. Right. It's just what your body is required to do to function. Rest is resting. It is setting like setting still, your soul being still. 

Amy J. Brown
Not googling every symptom. 

Sara Clime
What I think is so funny is anytime you say route talk, I'm always like, she's talking to me because you've told me before, “Stop with the route talk.” 

Amy J. Brown
45 minutes from Sara's house. She'll say, “I'm going here. It's 45 minutes.” I'm like, I don't even live in your state. I don't care how long it takes you.

Sara Clime
I'm always telling her I'm going to this one city. I'm like, it's 45 minutes away. And I think you're probably like, “I get it. It's 45 minutes away.” 

Amy J. Brown
I hate route talk. My family does it. We don't care how you got to my house or how long it took you. Just come in. Sorry, my little tirade. 

Sara Clime
And we digress again. 

Carrie M. Holt
No, but I think the whole resting thing is just so important because I think it goes back to a little bit of the way we were raised that you get all your work done before you play. 

Amy J. Brown
Right. 

Carrie M. Holt
You know, and in order to play, you have to set aside all those things that you feel like you have to get done or more important. And it's like this hierarchy of importance in our lives and rest and play both are forms of trust, trusting God, trusting that God's going to take care of tomorrow. He's going to take care of those things that need to get done.

Carrie M. Holt (33:22.35)
And they should be just as great of a priority as our to -do list. I think that's probably one of the ways that I'm learning to deal with transitions is like I was thinking even specifically of just getting ready to go on a vacation or coming home from a vacation. I am very much a, my calendar is full and I don't give myself a day in between or two days in between. And I'm learning as I age, especially, there has to be an on-ramp and an off-ramp. You can't just get home the day from your hospital, say, when you have a C-section and celebrate Christmas with your family. I mean, that's how I used to do it. And there's still have been times I've done it. I'm not good at it. But I think allowing margin when you're having those transitions and space and like you said to Amy, I think for me, it's also seeking out some mentors. Like, you know, we talked about in the podcast, I think in January about what we wish we would have known. There's some things we're just not going to know until we live it. But we can gain some wisdom from, you know, watching other families that we think, I want my family to look like that or, you know, and I've had a couple of books to that.

has helped me. Lastly, too, is allowing yourself to grieve. And I know you guys hear me say this if you've listened for very long, but we have to name the losses in our transition and not just glaze over them and keep moving because that that loss is going to come back and bite us sometime. And we're going to wonder, why am I feeling this way? Why is this erupting this way? Why am I losing it? And then, oh, yeah, there was loss in these things, a loss of time, loss of expectation, you know, whatever it was and I think we have to lament those losses. 

Amy J. Brown
I just have a question about that or something I've been thinking about, Carrie is that we do have to grieve our losses. But also, I think sometimes we go into things going, this is going to be terrible. Yeah. So how do we like balance hope and grief? 

Amy J. Brown (35:46.19)
I mean, I'm thinking about that a lot because, you know, we all have kids that are around the 18, you know, 19 year old age. And we have a child that's hopefully going to launch and I just assume it's not going to go great. And I don't want to have that mindset. And so I don't always know how to balance those two. So, I want to grieve and be realistic and lament, but I also want to hold onto some hope and not just immediately think everything's going to be terrible. So I don't know how we do that. Do you guys know or am I putting on the spot? 

Sara Clime
I don’t know if this answers it but one of the ways that I've learned to cope with transitions is to know that I won't get it all right. Yeah, I will face challenges. I will prevail at some and I will find other challenges to be growth opportunities. I have learned to tell myself that I have not failed in them. Even if I choose the wrong course of action for my son, it was the best I could do in that moment. What am I going to learn from it? And there are so many times where I can look back and say, I could say I failed and I'm going to fail again. And I don't know,  I guess that's what made me think of that was when you said, how can you hold onto hope? And I think sometimes for me, holding on onto hope is knowing that I'm doing the best that I can and I will get through the next transition. I can't plan for it. And I might really stink at it. I might get banged in the head with the ball or, you know, like there are so many times where the transition will happen or something will happen. I'm like, well, that could have gone better. But then right on the tail of that, I try to ask myself, “OK, so what can I do if when it happens again? What can I learn from that?” And like I said, they're not failures, they are growth opportunities. And as woo woo as that sounds, it is a mind frame set on, yes, definitely grieve the losses. How can I better prepare for the next one? And sometimes that is just preparing and saying, I can do it. I got this. How many times has the whack-a-mole game hit me over the head? But dang it, I'm going to pop back up again. I'm not going to just cower underneath the game and just hope that that goes away. I'm going to keep popping up. And I don't know.

Carrie M. Holt (38:11.022)
I know for me personally, I'm learning to recognize God's hand in the middle of it instead of just later. I've been doing some EMDR therapy with my counselor and she is a believer. And one of the things that she does is she, while we're doing it, she like, I'll be imagining a memory and she'll be like, okay, where's Jesus in that moment? And it's crazy because it, you know, sometimes it sounds a little strange, but I now have these memories where I can see Jesus in that moment. And I think in the middle of something, and especially if it's a hard transition or unexpected transition, it can be so easy, especially when we're striving people to just go, okay, God, I got this. And we just shove them aside instead of saying, no, Lord, I invite you into this space. And I know we've talked about this on the podcast before, but I invite you into it. And I wanto to see your presence, I wanna feel your presence, I wanna know your guidance, your steadfast love. And one of the things I've been tracking through reading scripture is the phrase, steadfast love of God. It's just been kind of like my words for the last several years and I started reading through the Bible chronologically and it's in Genesis that God has steadfast love for us. And so I think for me, I'm learning to go, okay, God's in today and I don't have to handle this on my own. And because of that, I have hope that this could go better than I expect instead of just lowering my expectations. Because the part of me is just like, well, just have low expectations and then you're not disappointed. 

Amy J. Brown
That's a good word. 

Sara Clime
So one of the things you knew you were talking about is relying on God. And so I have a client and she's not Christian and she has this exercise and I have put a Christian bent to it because that's just how I believe. But hers is, so she is a leadership coach and when you get overwhelmed and you have all of these things, you put everything into, like mentally put them into a balloon. So like if you're going through a transition, you put your finances and you assign it to a blue balloon and then you put your marriage and what is this transition gonna mean for like we're going through one right now, what is this gonna mean for us, my husband and I being able to be alone at all anymore.

Sara Clime (40:33.326)
So I put that and I put that in a red balloon and I sign all these balloons and hers is you just look at the room and see all of these beautiful balloons around and then you just pull one down. What I've done and it helps so much but what I've done is as I put these things in a balloon I hand them to God and so God's the one holding all of my balloons and I say, “Okay, God, which is the one that you want me to which is the one you want me to hold right now?”

And he hands me my red balloon. You need to focus on your marriage or you need to focus on this. You need to focus on your finances or, or girl chill out. I've got them just set without the balloons for a second. You know, like sometimes, so I'm very big on visualization. And if you've listened to me talk at all, ‘cause I have to have, I am just, I'm such a visual person that I have to visualize that. And it helps me sitting in this room. There's nothing else in my room. And I sometimes it's balloons. Sometimes it's boxes. And sometimes those boxes have locks on them. And God's like, that's going up in the top of the closet. It's in my closet. You don't even get it anymore. And sometimes it's a pretty box. Sometimes it's boring. But whatever that visualization is for you, I let God hold it. Maybe yours is you let your friend hold it. You let your spouse hold it for a while. You know, my husband and I are never, we believe that marriage is never 50 -50. And sometimes he'll come in and he'll be like, you know, it's a Brene Brown, she always says her and her husband come in and they will say, I have 10%. He'll be like, okay, I got the other 90. I got you. She was like, but there are times where I will say I have 20%. And he was like, well, I have 15. Okay, so what do we need to do in order to make up that extra 65 %?

Maybe it's ordering out, maybe it is just sitting with each other and watching a movie, something like that. Anyway, sometimes preparing for life's transitions is just knowing you can't prepare for them and accepting that and accepting that God's holding all the balloons. And he'll give you that balloon if you ask for it, but you can't take them back without him being involved. If you take it back, he's gonna let you take them back. That's the thing about God is he'll be like, you want all those balloons? Okay, here they are but you're either going to pop them or they're going to carry you away..

Sara Clime (42:59.47)
So which ones do you want me to hold for you right now? So anyway, well, I think we could talk about this for a long time. So we promised that we were going to talk about our own transition. So we always try to put out content that serves you, our listeners, better. And we never want to be just sitting here talking about what we want to talk about or what we feel is needed. So, what we want is we want to talk about what you need, what you want. And so due to our own life transitions that are going on right now, and what seems to resonate with all of you the most, we are now going to two episodes per month. So, we have one collaborative that will be on the first Tuesday, and that will be all three of us and we'll be talking about a topic like this. And then the third Tuesday of every month, we're going to have a surprise guest interview, and it's gonna be someone that is going to really be able to serve you well. And we just feel that this new format is going to be a blessing for everybody - not only us in our own personal lives to be able to cope with the transitions we're having, but from what we have heard from you that you like the most, that you the listener wants to hear. So, we are so excited about that. We would love to hear feedback on it as we get into this.

Let us know, do you like the new format? Do you not? What do you want to hear? Who do you want to hear from? Do you have a guest that you think, hey, I have read her book. She is a great caregiver. She has this. Let us know because we want to reach out to those people and have them on the show. So, with all of that said, we are so excited. It has been a transition that we've prayed vehemently over. And again, it is to serve you better and to serve ourselves and our family, of course, and the transitions we're in. But you play a big, big, huge part in that transition. So please know that and let us know what you think. So, Carrie, will you pray and then I'll close us out? 

Carrie M. Holt
Yeah. Dear Lord, thank you that you are with us in the transitions and that you hold our lives in your hands. Help us not to take back the things that you should be holding and show us what our responsibility is and how what faithfulness looks like and through different transition because it does look differently. Aand help us to remember that rest is part of that responsibility that you modeled that for us in creation and even throughout Jesus's presence here on earth that he would go away to be alone, to pray. And I just ask that you will be with our listeners and that they will turn to you and have hope in their transitions and also find mentors and people to speak into their lives so they will know that they're not alone. We ask all these things in Jesus name, amen. 

Sara Clime
Thank you. So thank you so much for listening to this week's episode. Are there transitions that you are currently going through, ones that you would like to hear us talk about or ones that you just need somebody to pray over? Do you need somebody to sit with you in that space and just help you work through them? If you do, please reach out to us. You can email us at takeheartspecialmoms@gmail.com.

If you want one of us specifically, you know that you have a child with rad and you need Amy to pray with you. Please let us know that as well. You can find us on Instagram and Facebook at takeheartspecialmoms. You can email or leave us a comment on our website at www.takeheartspecialmoms.com. If you haven't had a chance to check out our book, we talk about navigating these transitions and the emotions that come with them. So you can find that book, it's called, The Other Side is Special, at your favorite online retailers and you can find links to those retailers on our website at www.takeheartspecialmoms.com/books.